Showdown at Tims, with poop
11th September 2006
Whenever we start on a big trip, we make it to the gas station or coffee shop around the corner from our house before Lucy lets out a giant, stinky, leaky crap.
This, of course, happened Friday morning on the way to the cottage. We were in the drive-thru at a local Tim Hortons when Lucy dropped a solid-food bomb and we had to evacuate the car. Our only option for changing her was inside the store, as Spencer was occupying the only free area in our vacation-packed vehicle.
Tim Hortons stores do not have change tables. Ever. This makes steam curl out my inner ears. And this Tim Hortons was a fancy new one with only round tables and chairs — no benches.
So we changed Lucy on a table.
Eric was wiping her when a woman in line glimpsed Lucy’s bare pink bum and starting yelling at us.
"That’s disgusting," she said, gesturing at Lucy. "How can you do that? People eat there."
We looked down at the clean change pad protecting the table, the plastic bag holding the dirty diaper and wipes.
"There’s no change tables in there," I said, pointing to the washrooms. "Where else are we supposed to do it?"
"That’s sick," she told us. "I’m calling head office."
"Call them," Eric said. His hands were shaking in anger. "Tell them to put change tables in the washroom."
The woman was huffing and repeating "sick" and "revolting" and "disgusting" to everyone in line. Another woman in a red shirt glared at us, nodding. I later saw her in her car filled with baby car seats and toys, smoking a cigarette.
The first lady ranted to the cashier and got the store number so she could call and complain (we’re now waiting for the Tim Hortons Police to bust down our door, brandishing guns loaded with Timbits).
(Eric and I said afterwards we were thinking in our heads: "We’re going to breastfeed now. Is that sick and disgusting, too?" But, you know, didn’t want to start a war.)
An employee came up to us after and apologized, noting we had the table protected and agreeing with the stupidity of Tims stores not having change tables. She said it’s a company policy, that they’re worried about the liability if a baby falls off a table and the parents sue.
On the highway later, we wondered if we’d seen someone changing a baby where we did, before getting pregnant, before having Lucy, before being faced with a poop-filled diaper and nowhere else to go, if we would have been offended, too.
What do you think? What would you have done?
Possibly related posts:
- Lucy can poop all she wants at the new Ajax Tim Hortons
- Bits on furbies, Owen and Tims relived
- It’s a cute bum, but I’m sure you don’t want to see it while you’re eating
- I think I’m suffering from post (poop?) traumatic stress after this one
- Friday notes on poop (surprise!), teeth, night waking and, um, neutering!
No offense, but I would have been pretty grossed out by someone changing a poopy diaper on a restaurant table, too — no matter what was between the poop and the eating surface. (And I’m not pre-kids — I’m only two weeks removed from four-and-a-half solid years of changing dipes.) I’d have either gone elsewhere, to a place that did have a change table (McDonalds almost always does), found an grassy area and laid her down there (even if it was a little chilly out — she’s not going to freeze from two minutes in 15 degree weather), moved Spencer to make room for the bum change, laid her down on the floor of the car in front of the carseat, or used my own seat in the car to do it.
I have one other comment. You nurse, correct? Have you ever had someone tell you that you should not nurse your child in public, but go to the washroom to nurse?
If that offended you in the slightest – being asked to have your child eat in the bathroom, where people pee and poop, can you understand why people are offended that you chose to change your child’s diaper, where THEY eat? It’s the same thing, really.
Don’t get me wrong, I am totally pro-mommy and baby rights wherever they go. My first reaction is that I would be totally upset that there wasn’t an appropriate place to change a baby (or tot) in the entire building. My second reaction? It is a little gross. BUT, and I think this is where you were most offended (besides what I mentioned above), I certainly would not have been as rude as the lady in line, and if I were her, I would have totally understood that this was a problem with the restaurant, not you and Eric. Personally, I might have looked for a different spot, but there really should have been somewhere for you to go. They probably have thousands of diaper-aged children come through that restaurant (not to mention all the other Tim Horton’s) every year. What do they expect parents to do? What other choice do you have when you are eating there? The floor? Not happening. The rickety little chairs? Not feasible. Your car in the middle of winter in a snow storm or the middle of summer in a heat wave? Yeah, right! I think you did what you felt was your only option, especially when you’re in a frantic, flustered, gotta-get-this-poor-girl-clean-before-it-squirts-up-her-back panic.
Summary: Lady in line – unnecessarily rude. Tim Hortons – get with the program; you’ll lose a lot of business limiting your target customers to only those without diapered kids.
I’m writing Tim Horton’s complaining that there are no child change stations at their stores…. that is horrible. Where do most people stop while they’re on route ANYWHERE? Tim Hortons… I’ve had to change Kylah many times on tables at Tim Hortons. Don’t worry about that silly woman. I understand her preference, but she didn’t have to be so rude about it.
I think the truth is that poo is gross. The point is not that the lady was wrong, or that you were wrong. The point is that you made a decision, and you know what the reactions might be. Tim Horton’s corporation also made a decision not to have change tables. Presumably they have decided that they are willing to put up with the complaints. You should be too. Breastfeeding, changing diapers, disciplining your kids in public, whether to wear short skirts or plunging necklines, tight pants on men that show bulges (!), saying what you mean, and meaning what you say… these are all things that will elicit negative reactions from time to time. Make your choice – are you going to change your behaviour or develop thick skin? I’m all in favour of changing your baby where ever you want! And damn the torpedoes!
I have to agree, a table where people eat, in view of people eating, would be my very LAST resort when changing a diaper, especially a poopy one. ANYWHERE else is preferable to that. The lady may have been rude, but her reaction was justified imo.
My granddaughter is afraid of those changing tables in bathrooms. She freaks out if you lay her on them, so we don’t use them. There’ve been many times when I’ve had to head to the car and change her using the passenger seat. It is not the easiest thing to do, especially now that she is almost 2 yrs old! But I honestly couldn’t change her (especially a smelly, poopy diaper)in a restaurant where people are eating a meal. That’s the last thing I would want to deal with while I was having a meal and I couldn’t do that to anyone else.
The lady in line definitely could have been a lot more in control of her displeasure, but I do understand where she is coming from.
Hi there!
You know, your story could have been written by me about a year ago. I had essentially the same experience. I had been dropped off by my husband at a Tims when he was on his way to work, and I was waiting to meet a friend who was going to take the baby and I home. Same poopy diaper, same lack of change tables, same rude woman. I had actually asked the staff if they had a room somewhere that I could change the baby, and was told that if I needed to change the diaper I should go home. I was absolutely horrified by the way I was treated, and I haven’t set foot in Tims again.
Both Starbucks and Second Cup have change tables in their bathrooms, both the mens and the ladies!
EW. Serious lack of judgement. Go out to your car. I’ve had three babies myself and I think I would’ve had the same reaction inside my head. Not on a public table in a restaurant. Is this a joke?
No offense but I would not have changed my child where people eat especially not in full view of other people eating, my son’s poop doesnt gross me out (most of the time), but it may gross others out. I think this is VERY different from breastfeeding in public. I hate when places dont have changing tables either, usually I would try to sort of angle the changing pad on the sink/vanity area or if there is a chair in there, change my child on my lap. If there was not enough vanity area I would have changed him in the car, if the back seat was full, I why not lay the baby on the front seat or again on my lap.
I have to say this is gross. I understand the needing to change but next time maybe you should consider the driver or passenger seats of the car. Afterall if you had to get out then there was room to do it there. Sorry the lady was so nasty-she could have offered some help rather than cruel words. I’m not sure what Tim Horton’s is but alittle more disturbing bit of info–90% of MCDONALD’s in IL do not have changing tables. I just find it odd that a place marketed to kids doesn’t have a place to change a baby.:(
Yikes. I have to agree with most other commenters and say I’d have gone anywhere else rather than change a poopy bum in full view of people eating. I changed Evan in parking lots, grassy knolls, in the trunk of the car, all over. But I’m sorry – I know we all have those frazzled days – I’d never do it on a restaurant table.
All that said – Poop on Tim’s for not having adequate facilities!
Ick! I love Tim Horton’s. Yes, it would be nice if they had changetables, but I’ve changed many a diapers on their bathroom floor (on a good changing pad) or even on the bathroom counter if there is room. I also nurse my kids at their tables. But I don’t nurse in the bathroom and I don’t change diapers on the table. Poop and eating just don’t go together.
I’d be pretty grossed out by seeing that happen on a restaurant table too. We’ve changed our son’s nasty diapers in the trunk of our car because the establishment we were at didn’t have a changing table. I don’t think stores are required to have them; they are just a convenience for people frequenting their store.
Hi, I’m here from Blogging Baby. I have two little ones and have certainly suffered through my share of diaper dilemmas, but I don’t think I would have changed the diaper in the eating area. Seems like it would be a health code violation, for one — and you yourself described it as a “giant, stinky, leaky crap.” How unappetizing for the diners — like someone picking their nose in the restaurant.
I sympathize that there are no changing facilities in the restrooms — Tim Horton’s should correct that. But I agree with the commenter above that I’ve used the driver’s seat of the car, the restroom floor, and even the ground outside to change poopy diapers. I’d do any of those things before resorting to a public area.
But none of us are perfect parents — and it would have been nicer of the people making comments in the restaurant to offer you options (“come and use my clean car, I have a big back seat!”) than to give you dirty looks and attitude.
I have two kids, aged nine and six, and while I agree that it’s completely ridiculous for ANY public venue not to have changing tables, I wouldn’t have changed my baby on a table. I would have evicted the dog (on a leash, of course) so I could use the seat in the car, I would have pulled out the stroller and changed her there, I would have put the changing pad on top of a blanket on the bathroom floor if I had to, but I wouldn’t have used a table.
The thing is, that lady was a bit rude, to put it mildly. You made a decision and what? You were just going to stop right in the middle of changing the baby because she didn’t like it?
I do hope, though, that you used copious amounts of wipes on the table when you were done. I’m sure you did.
Sorry, but I do think you were wrong. People go to restaurants to have a nice meal out, not to look at poopy bottoms on tables other people have to eat at. Diaper changing on a table doesn’t compare to breastfeeding – that’s taking a meal like everyone else in the place.
Yes, it sucks that many places don’t provide changing tables – so complain about them. Complain loudly. But you do have other options. Changing pad on the floor of the restroom. Your car. Your lap, if all else fails. Or don’t patronize places that don’t provide for the kids they claim to want to include as customers. And let them know why.
If I roll the passenger seat in my car (2000 Honda CR-V) all the way back, there is room on the floor to lay down a changing pad (which I keep under the seat) and change a diaper. While this isn’t possible in the heat of summer, or in the dead of winter, it works well when the weather is moderate. I have done it many times, even when changing facilities were available, because I think public restrooms are nasty, and because she’s less likely to fall from the floor of the car than she is from a shelf-height change table. I suggest that you look carefully at your car and see if you can identify a place to change baby in there.
If not, you can use my other trick, which is to recline the seat of the (Graco) stroller into the “sleeping” position – almost flat – and change the baby there. Also much cleaner than any surface in a public restroom.
I have a one year old and one on the way, and I have to agree that I would be offended by someone changing a baby on a public restaurant table. I understand that you were limited in your options, but with a little creativity, you could probably have done something less yucky.
I hope in the future you’ll try one of my suggestions. Good luck!
Oh, that is a tough one. I remember being in a similar situation, but we opted not to change our Lucy
even though there was a bench at the restaurant table. I think my husband changed her in the back of the car, even though it was February and raining. I think I’d try to find a better outside location (unless it was winter) to change the diaper. Luckily, it will be much easier once your Lucy is bigger; mobility does make it more convenient, even if you are in public. I think it’s pretty crazy that those folks were mean to you, though. They may be the type to drive around with their poopy-pantsed children for hours while they smoke cigarettes (or something like that). Best of luck to you!
P.S. — I do think the poop/table thing is gross, but I would have offered help — even the back of my car — to a family in need.
It is not that you changed your baby in public that annoyed her, but on the table, that is really unpleasant, what is wrong with the floor?
I’ve had this problem too – not at Tim Horton’s (we don’t have them here – had to google it) but at Starbucks and Burger King. To help deal with it I took out the itty bitty change pad that came with my diaper bag and replaced it with a waterproof cradle/bassinet pad. It is much bigger and lets me change the baby on the floor without the baby actually *touching* the floor. When I get home I put it in the laundry and pull out a new one.
I have also changed him on the seat part of a table at Burger King – in the kids’ area, and at the most remote table possible. I have also used the bench seats at Starbucks. Each time I have wiped the seats down very well with wipes.
And, the reclined stroller is also good – if you have one with you. But the cradle pad has really saved us many times.
As a nursing mother, I have to disagree with the comparison between nursing a child and changing a dirty diaper. One is clean, sanitary, and a source of nourishment. The other is, well, human excrement. You can’t really compare the natural act of feeding your child with the rather unsanitary act of changing a dirty diaper on an eating surface. I have been in the “no changing table” position many times — we have used the floor, the seat of the car, or even my husband’s lap. A restaurant (or any other) table is not the place for changing a diaper.
Personally I have changed my son on/in every concievable surface of the car (including on the hood and trunk) but I consider it a form of discrimination for public places especially restaurants to not provide an appropriate place for you to change your child. The hard floor of a restaurant is NOT an acceptable place for them to expect you to change your child. I think that MORE people should change their children on the tables of places that fail to provide a changing area as a form of protest. If someone comments simply tell them that until they provide an appropriate changing area you will change your child wherever is most convenient.
My eldest was terrified of those change tables in the restrooms. I did notice that Timmies was lacking though, how odd. I became adept at changing her while she was standing (when she was able to stand) and prior to that I have a large travel pad that I will put on the floor.
You were stuck, you did what you could with what was available.
I don’t think the rudeness was called for but I don’t think I would have changed the diaper on the table for the simple fact that people do eat on that table. I probaby would have done it on the bench or in my car
Don’t let it get to you. People are petty and stupid.
I came via Blogging Baby and wanted to put my 2 cents to this debate.
Personally, I wouldn have changed my baby in the car, which I’ve done often when we went on long rides to NJ to visit the grandparents, or just any where that didn’t have a changing table. If not, I’d taken out my stroller and let her lie down on it and change it from there.
But a table in a restaurant? I think that’s a health hazard thing. We often hear of employees not washing their hands and everyone comes down with sickness. Can you imagine if the poop happens to leak off of the changing pad? Would YOU want your family to eat off of that table? I wouldn’t.
I’m sorry but I have to agree that I would never change a diaper on an eating surface.
Not fair to patrons and there is ALWAYS another place. Trunk of car, floor etc.
It sounds like you were taking it out on the restaurant for not having changing tables.
I know from experience you can change a babies diaper on the front passenger seat of a car (or move the baby seat in the back).
I am really just flabbergasted that your first reaction was to change the baby on the TABLE. Most people I know would never think that was appropriate. Was it just out of anger frustration you did it?
Also, I was bothered by you comparing the situation to breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is eating and of course should be allowed in a restaurant. Poop is POOP and of course most people aren’t going to want to see/smell that while they are eating. How rude of you to not think otherwise.
Anyway, I am about the most pro-mommy and pro-breastfeeding person you are gonna find, but I gotta say – bad judgement on your part. Next time just think to yourself “The tables are off limits for diaper changing” and I am sure you will find yourself thinking of all kinds of other creative ideas to remedy the situation.
Wow! Look what you started! I find this very interesting. Personally, I agree with everyone above but not strongly enough to judge your actions. I’m just fascinated by how vocal the response has been.
I forgot to say in my last post that I think that woman in line was pretty rude to you and I don’t think she acted correctly either. If I were in a line and saw a family with a young baby about to change them on a table – instead of acting like that I would have tried to be friendly and offer them help – like use of my large changing mat they could use on the floor or ask if they wanted to change the baby on the seat of MY car. (I find I have no problem speaking to other parents easily about stuff like this anymore. Guess being in the same boat helps!)
Anyway, I just wanted to add that.
PS – there was a story about Britney Spears changing her baby on a restaurant table earlier this year, did you catch that? http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/entertainment/151002004.htm
In this day and age, I say do what ever is necessary. I personally am fed up with the lack of disregard companies and some people have towards the fact that children exist in society. We all do things that may be inappropriate at the time because we did them out of anger and frustration. I find there to be a bit of a holier than thou attitude people partake towards parents who do things that they apparently would never fanthom doing. Until you’ve walked that road, you really don’t know how you would have behaved or reacted. This is what makes us human, not martyrs.
Carly did what she had to do. Was it right? Yes and no.
My take on this situation is it’s over and done with. Life moves on.
I’d just stay out of Tim Horton’s from now on and look for an alternate establishment if I can.
And for those that suggested the car, let me tell you from experience that doesn’t make people happy either. I did that in the parking lot of a No Frills back when Jayde was 7 months old. There was no way I was going to put her in the car when she had leaked and smelled while we were grocery shopping. The staff at No Frills were no help. Across the street was, you guessed it, a Tim Horton’s and I knew from previous scope outs that that was useless, too. So, I popped the hatchback of my wagon, laid out the change pad and cleaned her up. Let’s see. I got two rude comments of “can’t you do that in a washroom” and “how revolting” and then pretty much a few dirty looks.
But see, I have a big spine and paid it no mind.
You can’t please everyone.
No one likes to look at poop no matter where they are.
I find it disgusting that a dog owner thinks it’s okay for their dog to deficate on my lawn. I don’t care if they picked it up, there is still the contact of bacteria to my grass and my child runs around on the lawn.
Nobody is gonna be happy no matter what you do.
It would have been appropriate to take your child to the car to change her (or I change my child in his stroller if we have it with us). This is what we do in these situations as well as file a complaint. It is not sanitary (even with a change pad) to change your child in on a table where the public eat.
We all learn from our mistakes.
I have children, and I don’t think changing diapers with feces in it appropriate on any eating surface, whether the establishment had change tables or not.
I can understand the frustration of the chain not having change tables, but come on…. it’a a matter of hygiene and common courtesy. Breast feeding in public is not the same as exposinng everyone to the sight, smell and possible contamination of feces, especially while they are eating or trying to relax with a cup of coffee.
Personally, I think that is disgusting! I would never even think of changing my child on a table in Tim Hortons! The woman in line had every right to say what she did to you.
I have 4 kids and I would NEVER have changed them on a restaurant table. That is immature and is disgusting. There is generally one larger washroom (designated for the handicapped) with a large enough floor space to put the change pad on. I have changed my babies in awkward places before – like in the car on a seat that doesn’t recline, but I always managed, without be rude enough to change a baby on a restaurant table. It is the restaurant’s fault perhaps that they didn’t have the proper facilities, not the patrons of the restaurant who will be eating at that table in the future. You would have got the evil eye from me as well.
Hey there! I do think that is grosse. I have a daughter and would never think of ever changing her on the table or even in a restruant where ppl can see or have something to say. Just the other day we were out getting haircuts and my darling daughter had a poopy diaper took her out to the car to change it. I would never do that. The whole breast feeding thinkg is a different thing. You can be discreet about that.
I was at the Tim Hortons at Lawrence Avenue East and Railside on September 30, 2006 together with my mother and my two children. We ordered our sandwich combos, but when we tried to get a table we realized that the tables that sat 4 people were occupied by teenagers play cards, other teenagers eating food from Subway’s Subs, and other groups of teenagers that were just chatting away and not in any way consuming any food or even having a coffee from the Tim Hortons. I complained to the staff and all they said was that it was to bad and that they could not ask the people to move from the tables. I then asked them why the have the signs posted on the wall advising customers that there is only a twenty minute sitting period. The staff responded by saying that does not mean anything and nobody pays any attention to those signs anyway. I was very upset, I just asked my mother to sit at one table with one of my child and I sat at another table with my other child. I just want you to know that this is not the first time this has happened at this certain Tim Hortons. I own my own cafe and I know that this is wrong. I would never have something like this happen in my establishment. The people that work at that Tim Horton’s are very rude, they gave me the impression that those teenage kids that always hang out there are of relation to them. I really think something should be done about this.
I just went through this exact situation and am trying in vain to get ahold of my regional director.
Though when I phoned Tim Hortons Head Office the woman agreed that I should not have been treated in this fashion.
Heres my bit.
I go to a mom and baby class at my local gym. I live outside of Edmonton in Stony Plain. I do not drive so my other friend with her baby the same age drives me and we go to the gym together.
In November I had to change my baby girl then 6mos old.
We had never had to change her there before. We go faithfully for lunch 3 times a week. Eat a full lunch combo and are always nice and never leave our tables messy.
Well baby pooped through her diaper, through her undershirt and was coming through her clothes.
So what to do?
No change tables. -20C outside and no room in the car.
The floor was covered in an inch of wet dirty mucky water from peoples boots, tracked in from outside. A tiny bathroom where the door opens and sweeps the floor and you get bumped by it. No counter space, it was pretty much a pedestal sink.
Again what to do?
No benches only swivel chairs.
I mustered up the courage and said well I havent eaten my lunch yet.
Im a half hour from home.
I got out my change pad and laid it on the table. I got out my diaper and wipes and a whole new set of clothes at the ready, ready for the fastest change of her life.
Made sure her bum was facing the wall and went to er’.
I was done in record time.
Unfortunatley a man saw what I was doing and went to the counter to make a stink. I was done by the time the employee came to tell me off. The diaper was in the garbage. My daughter was dressed.
So instead of leaving me be the employee made a scene. Now instead of only one person knowing the whole section was listening.
She told me I cant do that.
I said Im sorry but you have no change tables.
She said regarless I cant do that.
I said Im already done.
I asked why there werent any change tables. She said this was because of liabilities. What if she fell off the change table?
I said any Tim Hortons has a handicapped bathroom. You may not open a food establishment without one. Therefore there is room for a change table. All the restaurants Ive been to have a change table I doubt Tims is going under if that happened.
So instead of just leaving it the man said I should have taken her to the car. I said I had to strip her down. So I was supposed to do this in -20C weather? I had a pad down. Nobody saw anything. I was sorry for causing such a problem.
I asked if the inch of water all over the floor was a liability if someone slipped.
No answer from employee.
So next time this happens I will either ask them to clean the floor.
Or I will ask to use thier office.
I dont have any other choice.
Im going to be contacting my local paper to let them know that Tim Hortons is not a family restaurant.
And it would really be much better for them if kids stayed home. We are not welcome. Just go through the drivethrough and be on our way.
Im still very hurt by what happened and had no choice.
I needed to breastfeed as well.
I am discreet about it. I said to my friend that I guess I would have to wait to do that till the man left. I have never felt uncomfortable breastfeeding before.
I havent since but am much more aware of whose watching me and am a little self concious.
I also think that while they are installing a change table in the womens batroom thye had better put on in the mens. Because Im sure many men would have been in the same situation at other establishments.
We had gone to Jasper Park Lodge.
My husband changed her in the bathrooms there. And I doubt that Jaspe Park Lodge makes more money a year than the Tim Hortons corporation. In our society today we forget that babies are more mobile than ever. And therefore should not be forced ot sit in thier own feces. We wouldnt do that to a dog we didnt like.
Sorry I’m late writing to this post, but we did the EXACT same thing. Must be a south Ajax tradition to do it once in a Tim Horton’s. You’re right, no change table = next safest place. A flat, clean table. We also had the change pad and everything. People stared, and some people said things jokingly to us, but no one complained, at least not to us.
I wish we could have the Tims police shoot Timbits our way. That would be awesome!
Hi, I am way late…but writing in hopes that Tim Hortons might see all of the complaints. That lady over reacted. It would have been unpleasant to watch..I am sure, but to react the way she did was not called for when everyone that enters the washroom could have plainly seen that you had no choice. Personally I would have also tried to find any spot but the table, but I would not have blamed someone who couldn’t think of some where else. Bleach is used to disinfect, I would hope they use it anyways to disinfect for the tables anyways. There are probably worse than that on those surfaces since half the time you go in, the table is still full of crap and who knows how many people have sneezed or have not washed their hands after using the facilities.